Brassed Off Britannia

Brassed Off Britannia

For a moan about the state of Britain and the World

 

 

 

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 Post subject: Re: Grammar Schools
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:49 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 12:21 am
Posts: 3402
Location: Surrey
He would have had to join up in 1940, come what may!


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 Post subject: Re: Grammar Schools
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:27 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 11:41 am
Posts: 6348
Just watched a re-run of a two parter about the grammar schools. Both sides of the argument were given time but no-one mentioned the whole idea of the 1944 Education Act. It was to have three streams. The academic, who went to grammar school, the artistic and technical who went to technical college and the others who went to secondary modern. Unfortunately the money ran out and we jettisoned the techs.

The grammar schools enabled gifted children of the poor to achieve great things. The buzz term these days is social mobility. They delivered it in spades. Their demise was a disaster from which we will never recover.


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 Post subject: Re: Grammar Schools
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:32 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:18 pm
Posts: 3227
Location: Elgar country
I watched the re-runs too. On a point of order, Hooky, they did specifically mention the Techs and the Sec.Mods, and made just your point: that the Techs stalled early on, and that the Sec.Mods were often a disgrace. What is more - and this must have stuck in the Beeb's craw - they admitted that the Comprehensives had never matched expectations, and that the fee-paying schools had left the state sector schools in their wake, when once the two were near-equals.

Nobody is more grateful to, and supportive of, the grammars than I am. But you really cannot settle an individual's future with a single morning's test at any age, let alone 11. You can justify the grammars only if you sink vast treasure into the alternative, and ensure that transfer is possible at any stage. Both requirements are tough to meet, and there's no political or social will to make the attempt. Academies (and Free Schools) are a fingers-crossed effort to do it on the cheap. Of course, a few grammars prosper still.....


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 Post subject: Re: Grammar Schools
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:47 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 6:56 pm
Posts: 9404
Location: Lake District, England
Hook Dangler wrote:
The academic, who went to grammar school, the artistic and technical who went to technical college and the others who went to secondary modern.

I'm in favour of grammars, but I was one of "the others" in Sec Mod where generally the emphasis was on gardening and metal work, providing the workmen of the future. I was more fortunate than most having a headmaster who refused to comply, bringing three classes in the 'A' stream each year through to GCE 'O' level and while university was out he did get many transferred to grammars at 13. The comprehensive system was meant to remove that barrier and thus raise national standards - pity it did the opposite.


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 Post subject: Re: Grammar Schools
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:00 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:28 am
Posts: 5357
Location: Holst country (to be different)
Like all of them, Grammar, Technical, Secondary Modern and Comprehensive, their were good and bad in all of them. My kids went to a Comprehensive and 2 of them went on to University and did very well. That's because it was a well run school.
My contention is that Technical Schools failed because the government's of this country of ours have always been led by people from academia and has never been led by engineers or people with an engineering base. They couldn't understand the need for those skills and so could not support the training in them. Hence the situation we have at the moment of nearly all our wealth coming from the Service sector. It's not as it should be more 50-50 so that at least someone earns money.
I agree totally with SI, you cannot judge a kid by an exam on a damp day in a sink estate school, but I also think that teachers are conned continuously by the new ideas. Learning by repetition was not a great way to learn but you learned and had then a base to go on. Get that back and discipline and our schools might have a chance.
Just seen CC's post.
I went to a "Central School" - nearly but not quite made it to Grammar. In that school at 13 you were chosen to stay at the school and do commercial subjects, accountancy and the like or be moved on to a Technical College. Worked well but the Technical colleges slowly disappeared.


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 Post subject: Re: Grammar Schools
PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:05 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 11:41 am
Posts: 6348
Just watched a biographical programme about Melvyn Bragg. To be honest I've always found him a bit up his own arse. But he went to grammar school and the number of people, of all political persuasion, who made it to the top after grammar school, is countless. They completely changed society and as soon as they were abolished, society changed back again.


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 Post subject: Re: Grammar Schools
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 9:19 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:56 pm
Posts: 1240
I don't know whether grammar schools are any better than good state schools, I really don't understand what social movement is and I totally agree that education is wasted on the young anyway.
So I admit that I comment on this subject from a place of misunderstanding and ignorance but I did watch an interview with the Minister for education this morning which did not compute?
The government is giving £50 million to expand existing grammar schools and build new ones yet I often hear reports of schools who cannot afford excersise books and pencils, some schools cannot afford to employ good teachers and there are many who have sold their playing fields just to keep going. Yesterday a classroom ceiling collapsed injuring 3 children probably caused by lack of maintenance.
Perhaps my confusion comes from a poor education but it don't make sense to me?????


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 Post subject: Re: Grammar Schools
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 2:52 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 6:56 pm
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Location: Lake District, England
There are 163 grammar schools in England and 69 in N.Ireland - none in Wales or Scotland. So divide £50 million between them and they'll get £215,517 each, and the 3000 secondary and comps can get stuffed. Makes perfect sense. I failed my 11 Plus and when I left the Sec Mod was handed my builder's labourer's hod and told to piss off.


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 Post subject: Re: Grammar Schools
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 6:43 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:56 pm
Posts: 1240
Quote:
I failed my 11 Plus and when I left the Sec Mod was handed my builder's labourer's hod and told to piss off.

I wasn't dumb enough to carry bricks CC. I was a late developer.
Look at us now though, socially moved rich old pensioners. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Grammar Schools
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 7:39 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 6:56 pm
Posts: 9404
Location: Lake District, England
Could it be that we learned a few things that the young still grapple with? Frinstance, the other day I ordered shirt from Amazon - brushed cotton, two pockets, perfect fit. Liked it so much I ordered two more in different colours and patterns. £11.99 each. My son pointed out that if the labels were switched for Levis, G Star or Tommy Hilfiger the same shirts would cost anything up to or over £100. My idiot mobile phone cost about £50 about 5 years ago while the kids today have to have the latest iphone at about a grand a go. I'm not that rich but the money men don't usually see me coming.


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 Post subject: Re: Grammar Schools
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 6:12 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:35 am
Posts: 5976
Location: Fleurieu, South Australia
Cumberland Cockney wrote:
....if the labels were switched for Levis, G Star or Tommy Hilfiger the same shirts would cost anything up to or over £100.

Yes, that's the prestige bonus you pay for having everyone else admire you, envy you and think you're awesome.
Or a delusioned prat without any self-esteem.
Quote:
My idiot mobile phone cost about £50 about 5 years ago while the kids today have to have the latest iphone at about a grand a go.

Same applies. If you are the type to queue for two days in the cold to buy the latest model so that others will envy your taste and perspicacity, then your voluntary contribution to a manufacturer who pays bugger all company tax is appreciated but you've been sucked in. The next model will label you as a has-been.

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Love people, use things - not the opposite.


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