Brassed Off Britannia

Brassed Off Britannia

For a moan about the state of Britain and the World

 

 

 

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:03 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:28 am
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Location: Holst country (to be different)
The same as Hitler wasn't taken seriously you mean. A few million died because he wasn't taken seriously. Would you have allowed Hitler to be sent to prison? But that was a war so it's different or is it. Breivik was carrying out his own war and believe me he has given the Aryan race lobby and the fascists of this world a shot in the arm.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:17 pm 
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Location: Surrey
He doesn't need to write his manifesto in prison and have it smuggled out to avoid its publication being prevented by the prison authorities, he published it (all 1500 pages), before he acted. You can download it for Kindle for free and I imagine a very large number have already done so.

Norway has a large Muslim population, about 11%, and, as in this country, they are seen by a lot of the non-Muslim population as beimg treated as 'special cases' to further the cause of 'multiculturalism'.

Norway also had, and still has, a track record of far right views and/or support amongst sections of the population. Brevik will no doubt become a Horst Wessel figure to them with the added problem for the authorities that, unlike Wessel, he has gained his notoriety whilst still alive.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:18 pm 
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Location: Elgar country
A good point was made in an article in today's DT. When people like Breivik advocate a particular course of action, the best one can do is the exact opposite. And that seems to be how Norwegian society is responding.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:12 pm 
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Senex Iracundus wrote:
When people like Breivik advocate a particular course of action, the best one can do is the exact opposite. And that seems to be how Norwegian society is responding.


I'm afraid I think the best one can do is put him to death. Norwegian society might well be responding in an humane and civilised way, but there are frightening undercurrents in Europe to whom he may become a beacon. Facism and Nazism has to be plucked out. Its no good trying to be reasonable with them, we tried that with Hitler.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:02 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:35 am
Posts: 5976
Location: Fleurieu, South Australia
Hook Dangler wrote:
....if I'm right it will become a world wide best seller.

And what conclusion would we draw from that?

Our domestic record-breaker this year has been a soft-para-porn novel involving sadomasochism, "Fifty shades of .
The merchandise wizards have been pushing it on most of our media.
The general consumers have agreed with the literary critics that it's poorly written and of little literary merit.
Most have found that out only after paying the cover price.

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v34/n14/andrew-oha ... southwards

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:27 am 
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Location: Elgar country
Hook Dangler wrote:
I'm afraid I think the best one can do is put him to death. Norwegian society might well be responding in an humane and civilised way, but there are frightening undercurrents in Europe to whom he may become a beacon. Facism and Nazism has to be plucked out. Its no good trying to be reasonable with them, we tried that with Hitler.

So do we keep on killing - judicially executing - all those whose right-wing views are incompatible with our concept of a settled society? Do we create a more liberal society by exterminating all those who oppose it? Isn't there a deep irony in that? Can we secure our way of life by endless bloodshed? Isn't that the road to totalitarianism? Do you root out an evil by creating a stream of martyrs to its cause?

I'm sorry, Hooky. I just cannot agree. When the political fanatics overstep the mark, they become common criminals, and must be treated as such. To do otherwise is to give credence to their cause, and risk misery for many (think McCarthyism). Witch-hunts do nothing to further democracy and freedom, and both are more precious than safety or revenge.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:15 am 
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I don't suggest anyone should be executed for their views, only their actions.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:03 am 
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Location: Holst country (to be different)
Senex Iracundus wrote:
So do we keep on killing - judicially executing - all those whose right-wing views are incompatible with our concept of a settled society?


But it is ok for them to keep on killing without fear of retribution. I say it again we have forgotten how to punish. We seem to be too busy trying to work out why these people do these things and trying to rehabilitate them, whilst in the meantime the blood of the innocent keeps being spilled.
I ask again, would you have executed Hitler because his right wing views were certainly not compatible with our concept of a settled society.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:32 pm 
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Location: Elgar country
cromwell man wrote:
But it is ok for them to keep on killing without fear of retribution. I say it again we have forgotten how to punish. We seem to be too busy trying to work out why these people do these things and trying to rehabilitate them, whilst in the meantime the blood of the innocent keeps being spilled.
I ask again, would you have executed Hitler because his right wing views were certainly not compatible with our concept of a settled society.

Without fear of retribution? If we catch them, we bang them up, don't we? Often for a long time.

Forgotten how to punish? The Americans operate a much harsher penitentiary regime than we do, and many states retain the death penalty. Yet their levels of violence are much higher than ours. Deterrence doesn't work well - except among those unlikely to use criminal violence anyway. So do you believe birchings and public hangings should be tried?

We had Oswald Mosley. He died an old man. Hitler was never in our jurisdiction - and then topped himself. Hess lived out his days in Spandau - and it would not have upset me too much if Goering & Co had done the same, though equally I have no quibble with the Nuremberg sentences. I am relieved that Norway did not turn itself inside out because of a monster like Breivik.

I say again: freedom is more important than safety or revenge.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:15 pm 
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Location: Holst country (to be different)
You can't have bloody freedom if you live in fear. Ask the decent people on the sink estates. Ask the people that you have read about recently who have been hounded to death by the local yobs while the police stood by and did nothing. Ask yourself why the police did nothing.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:48 am 
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Location: Fleurieu, South Australia
Senex Iracundus wrote:
I say again: freedom is more important than safety or revenge.

That is a real issue for our "boat people" (so-called illegal immigrants) - a big issue here at the moment.
If you arrive unannounced from Indonesia or Malaysia in a leaky boat, we'll hold you in Nauru or Manus Island (PNG) while we decide if you're a legitimate applicant for an entry visa, pending a protection visa.

If you're facing disemboweling by some nutter who will walk into a market with 5kg of explosives in his jacket, I reckon Nauru is not that bad. Our national leaders reckon it could take up to 5 years to step onto our hallowed soil.
Meanwhile, you'll be free to wander the island and be required to be home by dark.
That has to be a big improvement on the system of "concentration camps" (sorry, refugee detention centres) inside razor wire in the outback that was standard less than a decade ago.

Given a choice, I can see a case for yielding my freedom in exchange for safety. Revenge is self-destructive.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:29 am 
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Posts: 5976
Location: Fleurieu, South Australia
Queensland government has decided to get tough on criminal outlaw bikie gangs.
They're proposing new legislation that will include:
* their own exclusive prison
* 23 hours-a-day imprisonment in cells with no access to fitness equipment during the hour outside
* crushing of seized motorcycles
* mandatory 15-year terms for serious offences
* no TV in cells
* automatic refusal of bail
* 10 years extra for office-holders
Some offences will attract a mandatory 25-year term.
Now let's see how many of them move to the other states.

P.S. The legislation passed overnight and, with no house of review (the only state that doesn't) it's now ready for the vice-regal signature to make it law.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:06 am 
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Location: Fleurieu, South Australia
A new legal interpretation has now been introduced into our Family Law courts.
Where, until now, a senior bank executive earning a hefty sum for managing numerous multimillion dollar accounts could expect to receive the majority of the domestic estate if he separated from a wife who played bowls, supervised the domestics and kept the 'phone messages.
Now, it's likely she'll get half. That's the law; plenty would assert it's unjust. I'd be one.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:32 pm 
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Location: Lake District, England
I suppose it depends how you state the typical case - He works hard, She plays bowls. Most marriages are considered to be a more equal affair wherein he goes to work in clean underpants and a fresh shirt, has a nice home to come home to and gets his nooky on tap. I'm quite sure my wife would be entitled to at least half the estate.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:51 pm 
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Location: Fleurieu, South Australia
Cumberland Cockney wrote:
I suppose it depends how you state the typical case - He works hard, She plays bowls. Most marriages are considered to be a more equal affair wherein he goes to work in clean underpants and a fresh shirt, has a nice home to come home to and gets his nooky on tap. I'm quite sure my wife would be entitled to at least half the estate.

As would many but there must be no shortage of examples of marital imbalance in responsibility, stress and earning power.
I refer to the example of your monarch and her spouse. (See reference elswhere today.)

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