Brassed Off Britannia

Brassed Off Britannia

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 Post subject: Re: Philosophical Quotes
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:32 pm 
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Hook Dangler wrote:
Senex Iracundus wrote:
I am not on one side, and have no need of rescue. I am the river.


A grandiose and inspiring statement Senex. If true may I be a disciple.

Yes, I liked the resonance of it. But there's no question of discipleship: we are each our own river!


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 Post subject: Re: Philosophical Quotes
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 1:06 am 
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CC. May I return to your dismissal of my comment that if one goes back to the source, the banks meet.

I was alluding to CERN and the search for whatever was there before the Big Bang. In other words the source of the river, not the life of it.


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 Post subject: Re: Philosophical Quotes
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:50 am 
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The origin of that lengthy discourse on the quoted metaphor was not the start of the universe, but the proposition that faith and reason are two banks of the same river, a very human idea that did not exist until 13.7 billion years after the Big Bang.


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 Post subject: Re: Philosophical Quotes
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:01 pm 
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A friend of mine was taking books to the RSPCA. I rummaged through them and nicked Alan Clark's third volume of diaries. I thought this a thought provoking quote, 'High capital equals freedom, high income equals slavery.'


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 Post subject: Re: Philosophical Quotes
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:13 pm 
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I'm afraid the only thought it provokes in me is that I don't understand it.


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 Post subject: Re: Philosophical Quotes
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:20 am 
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Hook Dangler wrote:
A friend of mine was taking books to the RSPCA. I rummaged through them and nicked Alan Clark's third volume of diaries. I thought this a thought provoking quote, 'High capital equals freedom, high income equals slavery.'

I share CC's mystification - the quote needs a context, as it is otherwise a paradox.

Capital has no real value unless it yields income - indeed, capital can be a liability, as many stately home owners have found. Contrariwise, high income is bondage only if it is earned on an employer's unreasonable terms. Then again, capital allows choices for investment, while income ties the beneficiary to its source. In sum, more info is needed.

RSPCA? Cruelty to animals is an abomination to be deplored, and the combat against it does merit resources. But when there is so much suffering among human children, I do wonder why people prefer to rescue animals. I do hope we get the balance right.


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 Post subject: Re: Philosophical Quotes
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:19 am 
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The meaning is clear to me. With high capital you can spend your money on whatever you want. With high income you make 'appropriate' commitments, house, car, lifestyle, thus binding yourself to that source of income.


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 Post subject: Re: Philosophical Quotes
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:05 am 
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Nope, still don't get it. We all have income in some degree ranging from obscenely high to bugger all, the latter enslaving one to poverty and deprivation. House, car and comfortable lifestyle are hardly to be regretted. Capital can be used to generate income (wise) or it can be frittered away (unwise), or, as Senex points out, it can be wrapped up in property which may commit the owner to costs he can't readily meet.


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 Post subject: Re: Philosophical Quotes
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:28 pm 
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Hook Dangler wrote:
The meaning is clear to me. With high capital you can spend your money on whatever you want. With high income you make 'appropriate' commitments, house, car, lifestyle, thus binding yourself to that source of income.

But, Hooky, if you have capital and spend it, you are getting poorer all the time. If you have income and spend cautiously, you are getting richer all the time.

The word 'high' also obscures the issue. Presumably a multi-billionaire is safe and 'free' to spend liberally; yet someone earning £5m a year doesn't have many worries unless he's absurdly profligate. Once the sums are 'high' enough, slavery hardly enters the equation. But capital of a mere £10,000 is far from liberating, and even a £10K annual income leaves little scope. Thus your original expression (High capital equals freedom, high income equals slavery.) amounts to little more than saying it's better to have a huge amount of money than to have to earn it - and that's hardly a great revelation.


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 Post subject: Re: Philosophical Quotes
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:28 am 
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Senex Iracundus wrote:
...Hooky, if you have capital and spend it, you are getting poorer all the time.

Is that sound economics? If I 'spend' $100 cash on $100 of silver, am I poorer?
If I spend it on a better car, stereo, carpet, mattress, suit, am I the poorer for it?
(All of which are deteriorating assets, I recognise, but I am deriving a benefit in the process.)

If so, what am I doing wrong? I feel the richer for the expenditure.

_________________
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 Post subject: Re: Philosophical Quotes
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:41 am 
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Clark's own definition of 'high capital' is being able to live comfortably on the interest on the interest.


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 Post subject: Re: Philosophical Quotes
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:58 pm 
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Grizzled Grizzler wrote:
Is that sound economics? If I 'spend' $100 cash on $100 of silver, am I poorer?
If I spend it on a better car, stereo, carpet, mattress, suit, am I the poorer for it?
(All of which are deteriorating assets, I recognise, but I am deriving a benefit in the process.)

If so, what am I doing wrong? I feel the richer for the expenditure.

Excellent - you have spent wisely. But your capacity to add to your list of possessions is reduced. In that sense - your store of disposable wealth - you are poorer. The argument "I feel richer" is not relevant to the topic under discussion. Or so I contend.


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 Post subject: Re: Philosophical Quotes
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:09 pm 
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Hook Dangler wrote:
Clark's own definition of 'high capital' is being able to live comfortably on the interest on the interest.

Wow! I wonder if Clark could "live comfortably" on a mere £40K p.a.? To derive that from interest would require a principal sum of at least £2m - maybe more like £3m to cover taxes. But apparently that £3m must itself come from interest, and that would require a principal of around £200m.

So Clark is telling us it's better to have £200m than have to work for a living. I could go along with that, no problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Philosophical Quotes
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:08 pm 
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Are you lot winding me up?

I and Clark were being whimsical, with a spot of profundity added. We weren't trying to discover the meaning of life.

If you have oodles of money you have freedom, whereas if you have an enormous income, you are swept away on a flood tide of Jones's trying to outdo each other. So, in order to maintain par, you become dependent on the income. If the income disappears, so do you.


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 Post subject: Re: Philosophical Quotes
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:27 pm 
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Hook Dangler wrote:
Are you lot winding me up?

I and Clark were being whimsical, with a spot of profundity added. We weren't trying to discover the meaning of life.

Sorry, Hooky. It's just that the claim to profundity looked a bit - er - shallow.


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