Brassed Off Britannia

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For a moan about the state of Britain and the World

 

 

 

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 Post subject: Motherhood
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:08 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 6:56 pm
Posts: 9404
Location: Lake District, England
"She was not, herself, hugely in favour of motherhood in general. Obviously it was necessary, but it wasn't exactly difficult. Even cats managed it. But women acted as if they'd been given a medal that entitled them to boss people around. It was as if, just because they'd got the label that said 'mother', everyone else got a tiny part of the label that said 'child'..."
Terry Pratchett - Carpe Jugulum

It's true, isn't it?

Note...
Carpe Diem: seize the day.
Carpe Jugulum: go for the throat.


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 Post subject: Re: Motherhood
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:16 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:56 pm
Posts: 1475
Location: Switzerland
Cumberland Cockney wrote:
"She was not, herself, hugely in favour of motherhood in general. Obviously it was necessary, but it wasn't exactly difficult. Even cats managed it. But women acted as if they'd been given a medal that entitled them to boss people around. It was as if, just because they'd got the label that said 'mother', everyone else got a tiny part of the label that said 'child'..."
Terry Pratchett - Carpe Jugulum

It's true, isn't it?

Note...
Carpe Diem: seize the day.
Carpe Jugulum: go for the throat.


What is the point that you/Terry Pratchett are trying to make?


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 Post subject: Re: Motherhood
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:23 pm 
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Location: Lake District, England
No point. It's just an interesting observation, well put, that I thought worth sharing, one that I rather agree with having observed a number of mothers. I wouldn't expect a mother to agree.


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 Post subject: Re: Motherhood
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:16 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Motherhood
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:28 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 6:56 pm
Posts: 9404
Location: Lake District, England
This is a bit like that article I posted that just happened to be on the RDF website and led to a long debate about Dawkins whilst ignoring the article. Here it's about Pratchett. The quote is grammatically perfect, the 'She' being Agnes who was expressing the thought, although any 'she' would suffice. The astute reader will deduce that somebody was offering an opinion and a little detective work would suggest it was a female - the name was not important. I'll refrain from mentioning Agnes's fictional profession since it would open a fresh irrelevant can of worms that I'm just not up to dealing with.

But since nobody seems to be interested in either the sentiment or the superb way Pratchett expressed it I apologise for posting it.


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 Post subject: Re: Motherhood
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:15 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:35 am
Posts: 5976
Location: Fleurieu, South Australia
Merry wrote:
What is the point that you/Terry Pratchett are trying to make?

Could it be that motherhood awakens a degree of nurturing, previously latent?
Surely that can't be a bad thing, even the equivalent in males.

_________________
Love people, use things - not the opposite.


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 Post subject: Re: Motherhood
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:21 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:35 am
Posts: 5976
Location: Fleurieu, South Australia
Since this is in the thread of Poetry and Literature, I offer this.

SPRING INTO AUTUMN

The silent dawn is ruptured by a fault'ring, muffled cry
Which grows, full-blown, into a lusty grab for lungs of air.
Yet, minutes later, this same child lies peaceful in the crib,
Anointed with admiring looks at one so small and fair.

The wide-eyed infant grabs his bag and scampers for the car
And turns around to wave farewell and, beaming, blows a kiss
While mother waits with longing look on this first day at school.
Had she not noticed ebb and flow? How fast it came to this.

"I'll see you Mum, the car keys thanks - and better not wait up.
I might be late. A show, you see, an 18th for a friend."
She turned back to the tele with a coffee in her hand.
Had life so briskly rolled along that she'd not picked the trend?

She shook confetti from her hat and pulled off both her gloves.
How glad they'd looked, how full of love as they both drove away.
“We'll send a card; might even 'phone. And thanks for all you've done.”
Could this fair groom be that same one she'd watched at simple play?

“Would Grandma like to hold the tot? I'm sure you still know how.”
Incredulous, she gazes down, not knowing what to say.
Her mixed emotions stir her heart and fill her eyes with tears.
Had she not noticed how she'd aged, the wrinkles and decay?

* * * * * * * * *

She'd giv'n so much and worked so hard and often sacrificed
The things she'd longed for, dreamed about, and savoured in her heart.
The chances passed and now she knew they'd never come to be.
So long deferred, and now she saw no longer could she start.

Her vigour gone, her dreams dispelled, she grieved for her own plan.
She knew that she had gone the path where others walked before.
A life, not wasted – that she knew – and yet with great regret,
She recognised she'd not found time to savour so much more.

But now, too late, she'd seen the truth. Her chance had long since fled.
Change must go on, to grow and die, and we must choose the best
As all around, things undergo their constant, tireless ebb
That, in old age, the things we've done will past the final test.

_________________
Love people, use things - not the opposite.


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 Post subject: Re: Motherhood
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:25 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Motherhood
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:55 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 6:56 pm
Posts: 9404
Location: Lake District, England
I can't quite see the relevance of any of that, Shuff. The line is meant to be humorous but, as with all the best humour, containing a serious point. I thought it worth exploring.

A new mother is launched into a world requiring absolute control in the interests of the helpless child. She doesn't so much exert that control as one person guiding another, but becomes a single mind with two bodies, dressing, feeding, clearing up after, and gradually handing over control to the infant as the years progress. But that period of such intense dual body control cannot be either limited to just the child or entirely dispensed with when no longer needed. An element remains in the character of the mother so that the children remain her children long past their reaching adulthood and even past their leaving home and marrying. And a small element of the 'child' is transferred to the husband and all other people, sometimes to an extreme degree. Surely we've all met the type - all grown men been mothered, even by women outside the family.

But you did say something that comes close to explaining - "I don't know T P, and I haven't read any of his books..." Very wise. The books are all about witches and wizards, werewolves and vampires, trolls and pixies, gods and magic. You wouldn't like them.


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 Post subject: Re: Motherhood
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:29 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:28 am
Posts: 5357
Location: Holst country (to be different)
Cumberland Cockney wrote:
But you did say something that comes close to explaining - "I don't know T P, and I haven't read any of his books..." Very wise. The books are all about witches and wizards, werewolves and vampires, trolls and pixies, gods and magic. You wouldn't like them.


AKA Wives CC.


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 Post subject: Re: Motherhood
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:39 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Motherhood
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 5:14 pm 
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Posts: 9404
Location: Lake District, England
Isn't it odd that when women act overtly 'feminist' they are at their least feminine?

Pratchett... I have often heard his books written off as fantasy and fairy tales for children by people who haven't read them, but that's to completely misunderstand what's going on. Discworld is a reflection of ours with human stories written with an odd slant. It's difficult to explain but I would recommend them for the extraordinary wisdom they contain as well as for some of the best humour I've ever read. Just to give you a taste, from The Wee Free Men when nine-year-old Tiffany asks an itinerant teacher to tell her about zoology:

“Zoology, eh? That's a big word, isn't it."

"No, actually it isn't," said Tiffany. "Patronizing is a big word. Zoology is really quite short.”


The books contain thousands of gems like that.

Here are a few more:
http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/ ... _Pratchett


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 Post subject: Re: Motherhood
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:58 pm 
Meant to ask GG where did the poem come from? It has such a pleasent gentle rythmic feel and a nice, easy, gentle play of words that gives it a ... what is the word I'm looking for .... timbre??? .... no it can't be that, but I think you'll follow my meaning ....
.


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 Post subject: Re: Motherhood
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:16 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:35 am
Posts: 5976
Location: Fleurieu, South Australia
Shufti Cush wrote:
Meant to ask GG where did the poem come from?

Blush: I felt guilty being awarded first prize for this in a small local competition for an item I produced one morning almost "made to order" on the theme of "Change".

To make it worse, I am not - and never have been (that I can remember) - a woman or a mother.
Yet it was a syndrome I recognised in many, maybe my own Mum even.

_________________
Love people, use things - not the opposite.


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 Post subject: Re: Motherhood
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:34 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 12:21 am
Posts: 3402
Location: Surrey
My favourite Pratchett quote is:

"I've just got to go down to the Jail to see the Prime Minister"

"What did he do to be jailed?

"Nothing, we just find it saves time if we jail politicians as soon as they are elected!"


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