Brassed Off Britannia

Brassed Off Britannia

For a moan about the state of Britain and the World

 

 

 

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 Post subject: Re: Religion
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 7:01 am 
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Location: Fleurieu, South Australia
olderandwiser wrote:
Why should she be responsible for what is basically a stone-age thinking religion? .... let common sense prevail.

I've heard it all before - so many times. "A woman has a right to do what she wants with her own body..." etc.
Yes: she can get her lips pierced and/or tattooed, she can have her fingers cut off or excess ribs removed but when she destroys the life of a viable unborn human, it's not her body.
Abortion is not contraception: it's contra life.
Worse when it's because "My boyfriend will leave me;" "I don't want stretchmarks"; "I won't be able to go clubbing" etc. Worse still that I subsidise it under Medicare taxes.
Medically-justifed 'terminations' constitute under ten percent of cases.
A friend's grandson was delivered at 23 weeks and now lives a life as good as many adults. We can legally 'terminate' at 28 weeks. What's the sense of that?

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 Post subject: Re: Religion
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 7:59 am 
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Location: Lake District, England
Grizzled Grizzler wrote:
I've heard it all before - so many times. "A woman has a right to do what she wants with her own body..." etc.
Yes: she can get her lips pierced and/or tattooed, she can have her fingers cut off or excess ribs removed but when she destroys the life of a viable unborn human, it's not her body.

It's a very involved subject but it's that very point on which I make my judgement. You say "it's not her body", but until the child is born, in fact it is. No medical procedure can be carried out on the foetus without the woman's permission and she can, legally, take any poison or any action purposefully to destroy the foetus, and no-one outside of her body has the right to interfere, in the same way that she can, if she chooses, end her own and with it her foetus's life. The only thing the state has any right to determine is whether or not it will sanction medical assistance in the procedure, and given that abortions will happen anyway it is probably best to ensure that back-street abortionists are not involved.


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 Post subject: Re: Religion
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 9:30 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:56 pm
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Quote:
Abortion is not contraception: it's contra life

Spoken like a true impregnator GG. A few beers with the lads and with a bit of luck a quick shag, leave the woman to deal with the consequences and an unwanted brat.
We hear many tales of mothers willing to fight to the death to protect their offspring but that might depend on if they wanted 'em in the first place.


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 Post subject: Re: Religion
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 5:06 pm 
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Location: Lake District, England
I find the morality argument interesting. A woman is born with all her ova, releasing one a month from puberty until there are none left. So for every ova she has fertilised to produce a child there are hundreds of potential children condemned to death, or to non-life. But that's nothing compared to the male contribution to the slaughter. He produces anything up to 300 million sperm at each ejaculation, again every one a potential child and all but a tiny few (if any) discarded either by missing the ova completely or, with porn assistance, flushed down the lavatory. But that's OK, sod all of them, the moral argument starts only when one lucky sperm by pure chance collides with an ova and all hell breaks lose with banner waving 'pro-life' fanatics marching on parliament or threatening women outside abortion clinics before changing the banners to protest against immigration or over-population. Makes no sense to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Religion
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:21 am 
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Location: Fleurieu, South Australia
Cumberland Cockney wrote:
... until the child is born, in fact it is. No medical procedure can be carried out on the foetus without the woman's permission and she can, legally, take any poison or any action purposefully to destroy the foetus....

You may like to check that. Here's the UK legal position.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_destruction
Yes, the law allows a medical practitioner to remove "the contents of the womb" (a euphemism) but she can't.

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 Post subject: Re: Religion
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:24 am 
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Location: Fleurieu, South Australia
olderandwiser wrote:
.... leave the woman to deal with the consequences and an unwanted brat.

How callous and how loveless. How can she reject the product of a life formed within her, even if the miserable sod abandons her? It seems contrary to nature to me.
How long are the waiting lists for adoptions in your country? How many thousands of couple would love to nurture an infant not of their own conception?

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 Post subject: Re: Religion
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:29 am 
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Location: Fleurieu, South Australia
I had a discussion with a professional colleague many years ago. When I tried to explain the approved methods of 'terminations' used under our legislation, he refused to let me continue.
"I don't want the practicalities to cloud my issue of the principle."
So there you are: reality is irrelevant to morals. Really?
I hear so much of "harm minimisation" is issuing clean needles to narcotic addicts, even in prison but where human life is involved, lets' not go there.

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 Post subject: Re: Religion
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:39 am 
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Grizzled Grizzler wrote:
Cumberland Cockney wrote:
... until the child is born, in fact it is. No medical procedure can be carried out on the foetus without the woman's permission and she can, legally, take any poison or any action purposefully to destroy the foetus....

You may like to check that. Here's the UK legal position.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_destruction
Yes, the law allows a medical practitioner to remove "the contents of the womb" (a euphemism) but she can't.

I don't see how the link backs your argument or where you get the 'contents of the womb' quote.

"People have been convicted of the offence for injuring a heavily pregnant woman in the abdomen, such that her foetus dies; for killing a foetus during childbirth; or for performing a late-term abortion." Where do these terms allow forced intervention into the woman's womb before birth or any interference with the foetus while in the womb? Any such intervention without the woman's approval would be an assault on the woman, and rightly so. It surely follows that what she does with her own body, irrespective of how it affects the foetus within, is entirely her own business.


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 Post subject: Re: Religion
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:33 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:56 pm
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Quote:
How long are the waiting lists for adoptions in your country? How many thousands of couple would love to nurture an infant not of their own conception?



With thousands if not millions of unwanted children in the world I find it odd that you feel the need to add to the misery GG?
You are correct in saying that termination is not a right but in some cases it should be compulsory.


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 Post subject: Re: Religion
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:55 pm 
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Location: Lake District, England
olderandwiser wrote:
Quote:
How long are the waiting lists for adoptions in your country? How many thousands of couple would love to nurture an infant not of their own conception?

With thousands if not millions of unwanted children in the world I find it odd that you feel the need to add to the misery GG?
You are correct in saying that termination is not a right but in some cases it should be compulsory.

On GG's point, are we really suggesting forcing a woman to go through nine months of an unwanted (accidental) pregnancy followed by an excruciating birth just to give the baby away? What do we reckon for that service? £50,000? Or would a man do it for less? Or for free? It's her body and, as a man, I wouldn't dare try to tell her how she should treat it, certainly not order her to endure a pregnancy and birth.

And on OW's, termination is "a right" in most civilised countries. If the state is to interfere in a woman's body should we not first make all the other personal body abuses illegal? Obesity, smoking, drinking, sky diving? How long before statins become compulsory, or operations on hips and knees to remove people from the disability register?


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